The Workday Liberal

In the course of bopping about the intertubes yesterday I stumbled over a post on the pundits blog at The Hill titled Year Two of President Obama by John Feehery. Feehery is a bit of a right wing water boy so you would be correct if you presume that the Obama administration would be horribly misguided as pre-judged by Feehery. There was one particular paragraph which caught my attention, so I buckled on the accoutrements of war and left a comment. My comment was in turn commented upon, and the entire affair has been a lot of fun. So here is the pertinent comment thread left by moi and those who respond to moi:

11. Thank you for the laugh John… I especially appreciated the following prediction: “As America withdrew its forces from Iraq, political support for the Americans plunged in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, as Afghanis and some Pakistanis decided to throw their support behind a newly resurgent Taliban, who used the defeat of America in Iraq as a rallying cry for recruitment.”

Because everyone knows that Afghani’s and Pakistani’s (apostrophe trolls do your worst!) supported our invasion of Iraq by overwhelming numbers and those numbers have only increased as the years of quagmire draq on and on.

Otherwise it appears that John is describing the logical cumulation of events if President Bush were to gain a third term. The depletion of our military, the loss of international prestige, even watching as Russia assists Iran in furthering their nuclear program, supposedly for peaceful purposes. I would be hard pressed to draw the conclusions which John has reached, because I don’t believe Obama intends to continue manifestly wrong headed and defiantly stupid policies after his inauguration.

Comment by Ken — April 8, 2008 @ 5:36 pm

snip

13. Ken, have you ever watched one of those videos where America’s “honorable” enemies cuts off a living man’s head? They are instructive to figure out that these enemies don’t respect
weakness and are not very advanced in the moral scruples department. There are a lot of people in Afghanistan and Pakistan who support America and want to live in peace. There are also quite a few that like to cut off heads and there is only one way they will interpret America’s hasty exit from Iraq: as victory. I bet you can even imagine the two words they’ll be repeating over and over in their excitement.

Ken, you’re very confused about what causes respect in the Middle East, and it’s not that hard to figure out. The answer is “Ruthless Power”.

Comment by Igor R. — April 8, 2008 @ 6:55 pm

Unfortunately this comment was left just prior to my leaving the computer, so I didn't see it til the following day. But here is what happened when I got back to the thread:

19.Igor: In reply to my comment why you have the word honorable in quotes is simply a mystery to me. That word never appears in the original comment and I would certainly reject any notion that Al Qaeda or any other of a couple of dozen extremist groups, many of which recieve support from the Bush administration, have any sort of honor whatsoever. If you have a misunderstanding about my sides perception of this, that is your problem, not mine.

I believe it is that misperception which leads people like Igor to consider that it is well and good for America to commence with apolicy like torture or dissapearances while fighting the “war on terror”. They don’t mind disdaining our own honor in order to fight a dishonorable foe. They fail to realize that America has faced many many other enemies who held no honor, and we have always managed to hold our own values, even though those struggles were against threats much greater to our national existence than a group of throwbacks living in caves on the Afghan/Pakistan frontier.

The quote in my comment from the original post never once mentions the word respect either. It mentions Afghani and Pakistani support. There is a world of difference here. Anyone pretending that “support” for America around the middle east has increased because of the overtly bellicose and wrong headed attitude and policy taken by the Bush administration is simply living in a fantasy land.

I honestly appreciate the response though Igor. You distilled the world outlook of those who have led this nation to endless quagmire, attendent with the loss of American prestige on an unprecedented scale on the world stage with that “ruthless power” line.

Comment by Ken — April 9, 2008 @ 2:42 pm

snip

22. Ken the quotes were used to convey sarcasm and not quotation, and I apologize for any confusion. With that said, we will only get support (and respect, even if you didn’t say it) in the Middle East when we win. You see Ken, in the past we faced enemies that couldn’t destroy us to the same extent as, say, nuclear-armed Iran can. Yet back then when an enemy shot at us we shot back and didn’t try to count every unidentified battle-field corpse and claim it to be an innocent civilian (I normally put the last two words in quotes but just for you I won’t). Today we just need to win Ken and to hell with world opinion. Here is a simple algorithm that worlds against concentrated threats (not all, but many we should’ve handled this way): “Identify threat. Point a projectile big enough to eliminate it at the threat without regard for innocent civilians. Fire.” Would’ve worked for Falluja and Iran. Until it’s too late Ken, until it’s too late.

Comment by Igor R. — April 9, 2008 @ 6:09 pm

snip

23. Igor… I’m going to be blunt. This is language you won’t hear often from those who agree with me, but here it is my friend. You, and those who think like you, are quite simply panzies. Why would I say something so inflammatory. Because you, Igor, have the lack of intestinal fortitude which leads you to say patently ridiculous stuff like this: “You see Ken, in the past we faced enemies that couldn’t destroy us to the same extent as, say, nuclear-armed Iran can.”

Try telling the past generations of Americans who had their people killed by the hundreds of thousands that our war is more dangerous to this nation. It is frankly laughable. Our war, which the President calls upon us as citizens to wage by going shopping and having our taxes cut! Try telling the patriots that founded this nation that the threat they beat, while establishing and upholding cherished American ideals which we recognized from the Revolution until this abomination of a President, that the threat they faced to the nation was lesser than that we face now. By definition you are wrong, and it is that plaintive wail, that sorrowful fearful bleating about having it so rough these days and how dangerous the world is so we have to act like idiots, that makes you and everyone who holds those thoughts panzies.

I’m sorry if it sounds callous or mean… but it is true.

Comment by Ken — April 9, 2008 @ 6:45 pm

There is no reply as of my relating this, but if or when Igor sees fit to continue I'll leave further developments in the comments of this post.